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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Is a Maiden name a middle name or part of the last? |
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| Registered: March 18, 2007 |  Posts: 130 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ok I see that Cocoon has been submitted with as credited I want to make it clear that the submitter didn't not alter the original name in the data base just added as credited. But since it is up for review I voted no since her maiden name is in the middle name collumn I feel now would be the best time to correct it. She even used the maiden name in the credits as her last name. Again I know it not the submittor's fault just like to clean up the data base as best we can. Or does the majority feel I should approve this since HIS info is correct and then resubmit with the change of middle name to part of the last, I be happy to do that. let me here from you all. Thanks, Tom |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is no standard answer. It depends on the person involved.
Some women drop their 'birth' middle name and replace it with their maiden name.
Some women add it to their married name, to form a double-barreled last name.
Of those that add it to their married name, some use a hyphen and some do not. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | As the submitter i'll reiterate some of the things i told Tom in PM's. First, the name in question is that of Ron Howard's mother, Jean. She is credited in Cocoon as Jean Speegle (her maiden name: http://www.tv.com/ron-howard/person/3652/biography.html). Apparently she sometimes used the maiden name and sometimes First Maiden Howard - see Apollo 13). She's in the database as Jean/Speegle/Howard. She's credited in Cocoon as Jean Speegle. I used the Credited As function to link them. I don't think there's any debate it's the same person. I never gave the maiden name as middle name a second thought. When my mom married my dad her maiden name became her middle name (she didn't have one) and that's how she lived her life. Maybe it's just a southern US thing (i'm from Texas, the Howard's from Oklahoma). Does everyone do it that way? Nope. But it is normal to me. Other cultures do it differently and that's fine but this lady was from the US and the last name can be the middle name based on my experience. The hyphenated last name thing wasn't common, or perhaps even known, in Oklahoma and the southern US 50-60 years ago. To emphasize this note the name on her headstone: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=18421So i saw, and still see, nothing wrong with her name as it is in the database. It's already there and approved that way and i'm OK with it. | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
I never gave the maiden name as middle name a second thought. When my mom married my dad her maiden name became her middle name (she didn't have one) and that's how she lived her life. Maybe it's just a southern US thing (i'm from Texas, the Howard's from Oklahoma). Does everyone do it that way? Nope. But it is normal to me. Other cultures do it differently and that's fine but this lady was from the US and the last name can be the middle name based on my experience.. Oddly enough, I am also from Texas. My mother did not have a middle name before she was married either. When she married my father, she dropped her maiden name in favor of his last name, so still doesn't have a middle name. As I said, there is no 'norm' here. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Posts: 130 |
| | Posted: | | | | My main point is it's in the data base is wrong, since we have the dvd credits on Cocoon and she list her last name as Speegle we know she sometimes uses it as her last not middle, we open a can of worms if we start putting maiden last names as middle. There is Courteney Cox Arquette, Farrah Fawcett Major, Dee Wallace Stone, to name just a few. Again I just looking to see what the consensus is. Should I votes yes now then go back and fix the name or have it done now since it is already up for a vote? |
| | Registered: June 12, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Tomricci: Quote:
There is Courteney Cox Arquette, Farrah Fawcett Major, Dee Wallace Stone, to name just a few. And i would agree with you in all three of your examples. They are double last names. I simply don't think the same rule apply to Mrs. Howard. Her headstone identifies her as 'Jean Howard'. She chose different combinations of her names when she acted. To quote a great philosopher: Quote:
As I said, there is no 'norm' here. | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | Courteney Cox isn't being credited with "Arquette" in her latest film and TV roles, she only used Courteney Cox Arquette the last four seasons of friends. Currently for the TV series "Friends" the common name of Courteney Cox was used.
Becuase there appears to be no standard for when an actress will use her maiden name as her middle name or as part of her new last name. Using the maiden name as a common name works best, that way you don't have to worry if her maiden name is now her middle name or part of her last name. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Tracer: Quote:
Using the maiden name as a common name works best, that way you don't have to worry if her maiden name is now her middle name or part of her last name. Very true! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
Quoting Tomricci:
Quote:
There is Courteney Cox Arquette, Farrah Fawcett Major, Dee Wallace Stone, to name just a few.
And i would agree with you in all three of your examples. They are double last names. I simply don't think the same rule apply to Mrs. Howard. Her headstone identifies her as 'Jean Howard'. She chose different combinations of her names when she acted. Since her headstone uses 'Jean Howard', I might be inclined to use that as her "common name". Seems like fairly good documentation to me.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Since her headstone uses 'Jean Howard', I might be inclined to use that as her "common name". Seems like fairly good documentation to me. And I doubt she'll be changing it anytime soon either. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Tomricci: Quote:
My main point is it's in the data base is wrong, since we have the dvd credits on Cocoon and she list her last name as Speegle we know she sometimes uses it as her last not middle, we open a can of worms if we start putting maiden last names as middle. There is Courteney Cox Arquette, Farrah Fawcett Major, Dee Wallace Stone, to name just a few. Again I just looking to see what the consensus is. Should I votes yes now then go back and fix the name or have it done now since it is already up for a vote? Tom: And what leads you to believe that it is in the database wrong. Have you asked either Rance or Ron, or perhaps you have access to some documents that she has had to fill in First Middle and Last. You are making an assumption that you cannot verify. I agree with 8Ball and Unicus use Jean Howard as her Common Name, I think her headstone is rock solid<groan>  evidence in that regard. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
As the submitter i'll reiterate some of the things i told Tom in PM's.
First, the name in question is that of Ron Howard's mother, Jean. She is credited in Cocoon as Jean Speegle (her maiden name: http://www.tv.com/ron-howard/person/3652/biography.html). Apparently she sometimes used the maiden name and sometimes First Maiden Howard - see Apollo 13). She's in the database as Jean/Speegle/Howard. She's credited in Cocoon as Jean Speegle. I used the Credited As function to link them. I don't think there's any debate it's the same person.
I never gave the maiden name as middle name a second thought. When my mom married my dad her maiden name became her middle name (she didn't have one) and that's how she lived her life. Maybe it's just a southern US thing (i'm from Texas, the Howard's from Oklahoma). Does everyone do it that way? Nope. But it is normal to me. Other cultures do it differently and that's fine but this lady was from the US and the last name can be the middle name based on my experience.
The hyphenated last name thing wasn't common, or perhaps even known, in Oklahoma and the southern US 50-60 years ago. To emphasize this note the name on her headstone: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=18421
So i saw, and still see, nothing wrong with her name as it is in the database. It's already there and approved that way and i'm OK with it. You are most definitely not the only one whose mother followed that tradiition. My mother was born Marilyn Ann. When she married, she dropped the Ann and added her maiden name as her middle name. Very much common practice in the US 58 years ago - and still is today. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
Quoting Tomricci:
Quote:
There is Courteney Cox Arquette, Farrah Fawcett Major, Dee Wallace Stone, to name just a few.
And i would agree with you in all three of your examples. They are double last names. I simply don't think the same rule apply to Mrs. Howard. Her headstone identifies her as 'Jean Howard'. She chose different combinations of her names when she acted.
To quote a great philosopher:
Quote:
As I said, there is no 'norm' here. I don't agree that those three are necessarily double last names. In the first place, you're dealing with celebrities here. They have established names that are almost trademarks. Most celebrities don't fool around with their names for career reasons, and if they do change them it is done to still be easy to recognize who they are. Hence, they use their full name. Many people in history have used their full name as well, but do not have double last names. John Wilkes Booth for example, or John Wesley Hardin, John Phillip Sousa, Frank Lloyd Wright, and so on. Naming traditions depend a great deal on the religious affiliation of the person. In many Catholic countries you'll find people, women especially, with multiple "middle" names, and even formal and informal names. This is decidedly more of a European tradition than it is New World. Protestant denominations have quite different naming traditions. One of the major ones is replacing one's middle name with the maiden last name upon marriage. This is primarily done to honor the husbands family while still maintaining family links to their birth family, same as the European tradition of hyphenated names. The bottom line is that one's traditions are one's traditions, and there are many such. It is the height of arrogance for one group to say another groups' traditions are wrong or to assume something is one way or the other without solid proof. Automatically assuming that because just because Dee Wallace added her husband's name and became known as Dee Wallace Stone has a double last name is such a case. As a student of history and of geneology, one thing I realize is that names have always been and are very important to nearly everyone. They carry tremendous emotional and traditional aspects, and many, many, many people have died over the centuries for real or imagined insults and slurs to one's name. We should be far more careful in how we deal with names than we are, just as a general practice. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just put the options up for voting then get the result added to the common name database.
I don't care if it's 'culturally' correct or not. We just need to agree on a name for everyone to use.
Sometimes there is no right or wrong answer.
It's DVD Profiler NOT Genelogy Profiler. | | | | Stuart | | | | Last edited: by Gadgeteer |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | FWIW BFI list her as HOWARD, Jean Speegle Seeing as that seems to be the only source that suggests any form of parsing I would suggest adding her as Jean/Speegle/Howard That added to the fact that the Tombstone has "Jean Howard" would suggest that Speegle was a 'middle' name and definitely not part of her last name. | | | | Stuart | | | | Last edited: by Gadgeteer |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 519 |
| | Posted: | | | | Damn Quote button | | | | Stuart | | | | Last edited: by Gadgeteer |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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